Christian Napier 0:11
Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of the Salt Lake 2002 Retrospective podcast which is a back of house look at the planning and delivery of the Salt Lake 2002 Olympic Winter and Paralympic Winter Games, as told by the very people who organized them. I'm Christian Napier and our final guest today. Yes, this is the first, the No, not the first. This is the third podcast I'm recording today is with Michelle Thornbury. Now, Michelle. The second interview today, which I just barely finished, was with Lori Morency Kun. And she said to give you a virtual hug on her behalf. So I am now giving you officially the virtual hug as promised to Lori and I'm so happy to have you join us today. Michelle, how are you?

Michelle Thornbury 0:58
Thank you. I'm wonderful. And I'm really, really delighted to be here. And I love Lori. So that's that's the best way to start this.

Christian Napier 1:04
All right, fantastic. Well, I'm very happy to be wrapping up today with you. Super looking forward to getting into all of your stories about the Games. But before we go back to Games time I want to talk about today. So where are you at today? And what are you doing?

Michelle Thornbury 1:17
I live in Nashville, Tennessee, which is where I lived before the Games and came back after. And I currently work for Scott Hamilton, the Olympic figure skater and part of his management team. So I handle his public appearances. I also help him run his nonprofit The Scott Hamilton Cares Foundation, Cancer Foundation, and Skating Academy. The Scott Hamilton Skating Academy.

Christian Napier 1:43
Wow, that's a lot. That's really cool. And Scott Hamilton. I have to say, you know, the performances were fantastic because he skated with so much emotion. But I think he was one of the great, all time great announcers, commentators for figure skating. I just really, really enjoyed listening to him commentate on figure skating. So it must be a real joy to work with him.

Michelle Thornbury 2:07
I love working with Scott. I've been with him for 16 years. I've known him for 20. I met him right before the Olympic Games, and then started working with him in 2003. And he's he's, I tell people, better than they imagined he would be. I mean, everything that you picture on TV, he's better.

Christian Napier 2:25
Oh, my gosh, wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. Now I can see that it looks like you might be joining from home. Are you joining from an office? Where are you joining from?

Michelle Thornbury 2:34
I'm joining from home. We're all working from home right now here in Nashville too. And we've had a lot, a lot of work going on still. So you know, I've been I've been very fortunate to still be employed. And a lot of folks in the entertainment and event business I know are struggling. And so I don't take this time for granted. And then Scott, he calls himself a survivor of collecting life threatening, threatening illnesses. And so it's best to keep his home environment as safe as possible right now. So we're all staying away and just working remotely, which is been fine. It's been it's worked really well, because we communicate well as a team.

Christian Napier 3:15
Well, I'm glad to hear that everyone is safe and sheltering in place. But I imagine and you mentioned that the impact on the industry is tremendous. Right? I'm in this industry, and everything is just completely shut down. But so, you know, what happens with all of those speaking engagements and public appearances and everything? Does he do things virtually? Remotely from home? Or is he just like pretty much completely shut down?

Michelle Thornbury 3:39
Well, he's doing a lot of webinars and podcasts and then the like, the virtual speaking side of things is really just beginning to -- it's a new way of doing public speaking. So we're kind of trying to figure out how that, how that'll work. And so I've been participating in a lot of learning opportunities to start to lay that groundwork, and then I spend a lot of time rescheduling. So, you know, things that were happening in June are in June 2021. And things that are happening in the fall, fingers crossed will still happen. But we won't know that for a while.

Christian Napier 4:14
So you're not just sitting around twiddling your thumbs. You, you got work to do.

Michelle Thornbury 4:18
I got work to do, we got and we're trying to get our kids back on the ice at the Skating Academy. And we've got some pretty incredible programming going on there, with off ice training for our athletes. And the Cancer Foundation. Your cancer hasn't taken the time off because of COVID so we've got to continue to figure out how to fund cancer research in a time where, rightly so, the money is all going towards COVID but at the same time, the world still turns.

Christian Napier 4:54
Yeah, unfortunately those diseases don't stop. It's not like they are courteous and say okay, COVID you have your time in the spotlight, we'll just all hang back here. Yeah, we'll cause no more deaths for another few months while you guys just take care of yourself. Now, it doesn't work that way. It just keeps marching on just keeps marching on. Wow. Well, I want to give you an opportunity to talk more about those nonprofit activities, particularly near the end of the show. But before we get there, I want to go back to Salt Lake. So as you've heard on the podcast, I know it's kind of predictable now, but I kind of like this format. Because it's a -- it's, you know, it's easy to follow chronology. So chronologically speaking, you know, what were you doing at the beginning? Or I guess before the beginning, before you join the Salt Lake Organizing Committee, what were you doing? And then how did you find your way to Salt Lake?

Michelle Thornbury 5:42
My story is kind of a little bit unusual in and then a little light at the same time. I was working in concert touring before I came to SLOC. And I had toured with Shania Twain in 1998 - 99. And then went to work for Stars on Ice, which is when I met Scott, because I've always had a lifelong passion for skating, and grew up on the ice myself, I'm not a good skater, but I love it. And at the end of the Stars on Ice tour in January 2000, I thought this is it. This is what I want to do with the rest of my life. I want to keep touring with Stars on Ice forever, because they went out every single year. So it could have been a recurring gig for me. And they had to do some budget cuts. And my position was considered expendable. And so they brought someone else in to do a different position with that part of the budget that was mine. So the tour director that I'd worked with, with Stars, excuse me with Shania Twain. A guy named George Travis, he is a legend in the concert touring business. And he called me one day and he said, this buddy, Ron, my buddy, Ron, I want you to send him your resume. And George was my mentor. So George says, send your resume, I'm going to send a resume. So I sent a resume around, I had no idea who I was sending my resume to. I had no idea what the job was. And I saw Salt Lake in the email address. And I'm like, huh, okay, well, I don't know. And Ron calls me and hey, this is Ron Cameron. And I'm working with the Salt Lake 2002 Olympic Winter Games. And I'd like to interview for, interview you for an operations manager and the ceremonies team. I was like, oh, okay, sure, why not. And so we did. We did virtual interviews, we did. I went into a studio somewhere and did a video interview for my first interview. And I had always said that I wanted to work in Olympic Games. But Atlanta came right at the time I had just moved to Nashville. And I didn't make sense to go down there. I didn't know anyone at that point. They were only hiring volunteers. I was on tour when Salt Lake started ramping up, so I didn't consider it. But when I got the job, I jokingly told my friends I'm probably the only person on the Salt Lake Organizing Committee who could say that they took a job on the Olympics on the rebound. Because I was so disappointed that I wasn't going back to Stars on Ice. But it wound up being as life always is the perfect place for me to be that could not have it could not have asked for the script to be written any better.

Christian Napier 8:14
So Ron Cameron calls you? You're on the rebound to Salt Lake.

Michelle Thornbury 8:20
Yeah.

Christian Napier 8:21
What do you think when you get here?

Michelle Thornbury 8:23
Ah, it was so awesome. I went to orientation. And you know, they used to hold it on the main level, I think it was the 15th floor of the Wells Fargo building. And I'm sitting at a table with a whole bunch of other people of all different ages and we're watching those videos like the fire within videos, and then tears pouring down my face and I'm like, I'm such an Olympic purist. I can't believe I'm here. And I'm looking around and every other single person in the, in the room has tears pouring down their faces. They all are in the same place. This is right. This is really right. And then I think Bev or somebody else. Katie Clifford maybe talked about getting thrown in a car and driven out to the Short Track test event. When I came out for my final interview that was that weekend, so I was thrown in a car with Leighanne Bingham and taken out to that Short Track test event. And that was my first impression of like, oh, okay. And then I just fell in love with Utah. It's so beautiful. I still miss it. It's so beautiful. I go back about every other year.

Christian Napier 9:42
Where did -- where did you live?

Michelle Thornbury 9:43
Right across the street from Trolley Square. I lived across the hall from Karen Williams, who worked Soldier Hollow I think or Park City and don't remember which, but really close. I wanted to be right in town because my venue was Rice Eccles Stadium. And -- is my dog picking up?

Christian Napier 10:04
Yeah, I can hear the dog but Maureen had a dog on too. I mean we're all working from home. I'm not Dick Ebersol here with NBC or anything. You know, you're not talking to Bob Costas here. So if the dog is barking is totally fine. No worries.

Michelle Thornbury 10:18
Okay, sorry about that. Um, yeah, so I wanted to be right in town because my venue was Rice Eccles Stadium. And I felt like in a pinch, I could walk to the venue if I needed to. And we kept hearing such predictions of traffic being just gridlocked. And so I thought, well, I better, I better be prepared to be able to get to my venue easily. And I loved living in the Trolley Square area. I could walk to the SLOC offices from there, I was really central to a lot of, a lot of neat things. I could get everywhere easily.

Christian Napier 10:47
Awesome. Well, you mentioned that you had that interview with Ron. Ron brought you on. And you've also mentioned Bev and Katie and lots of other people. So as you worked there in the organizing committee, who were some of the people that you worked with, that you just found really, really inspiring, friendly, helpful? Funny, you know, and I know it's hard because you want to make lists and then you want to name 150 people to avoid leaving one off, but you know, if you could just give us a sense of just some of the people that had an influence on you while you were there, that'd be great.

Michelle Thornbury 11:21
Of course, Ron was amazing. He was the most chill, most take your job seriously and not take yourself seriously type person who was the perfect example and leader of our team. And then we had Chris Cole and Ralph Ord that made up our event management team, and they were amazing. We didn't have a sport, of course, we had ceremonies. So the folks from Don Mischer Productions were amazing, incredibly talented at what they did. David Goldberg and Kathy Ericson and Jeff Bennett, and then the Paralympic team as well, because we had the opening ceremonies of the Paralympics. So Jody Lister and his gang were were just a delight to work with. And then then I loved loved loved our event services gang of Ronan Kitching, and working under Steve Mirabile. And then, and then my friends and figure skating because that was such a love of mine, that I got to hang out with the figure skating gang and get to know them pretty well.

Christian Napier 12:19
All right, thank you so much for that and shout out to many of those people, some of those names I haven't heard for so long, like Ronan Kitching. You know, it's interesting. Of course, Steve Mirabile, they worked for Contemporary International, who was providing the spectator services, who I ended up working for in Athens and, and got to know a lot of those people while there. Coming back to Salt Lake, you worked the ceremonies. Now, it is perhaps the showcase event of the Games, right? More eyes are on those ceremonies than on anything else. And so there's a tremendous amount of time and preparation that goes into that. A huge cast, a huge crew, huge workforce. So talk to me about planning and organizing the ceremonies, you know, what were some of the challenges that you faced? And what were some of the things that you did to overcome those challenges?

Michelle Thornbury 13:13
Oh, gosh, it was it was tremendous. And it was a tremendous responsibility as well, because we knew the eyes of the world would be on us. And the heads of state of many countries would be there as well. So we were dealing with every possible angle of all the people that were part of the ceremonies and the year and a half that went into, or longer, that went into casting and rehearsing and then set up and, and working around the football schedule at the University of Utah Rice Eccles stadium. And then some of the things like -- we had to convince the city that Trax was not a good way to bring spectators into the venue. And they had spent all that time building the Trax line to get up to the venue. And that was, that was a little bit of a challenge. The athletes march was a challenge because we were one of the first ceremonies that chose to bring the athletes in for the entire ceremony and not just at the end. And so all the Chef de Missions were concerned about how long their athletes were going to be sitting out in the cold immediately prior to competing. So staging their march was a really big challenge. And then the whole presidential contingency, you know, the Secret Service looks at anything that the President is involved in as a presidential event. Whereas me, the Olympic purist is like no, this is an athlete event and the president just happens to be attending and so there were always those you know, like, hey, guys, come on, we're on this together. You know, you get, you don't get to take this over. You know, you don't get to put your 150 people in the tight pool and the tower that doesn't hold that many people when you've got to put other heads of state and all the media. And so it was, it was, it was beautiful because it was such a convergence of everything that we had all worked so hard for for so long ever, it was just a common mission. I think, I think we probably hear that across all of these podcasts, the common mission kind of thing was, was part of what made this also spectacular.

Christian Napier 15:25
Well, absolutely, everybody had a common goal, and everybody worked their butts off to achieve it. I mean, you put in very, very long hours, and very, very long days and weeks and months leading up to the culminating event that opening ceremony. What was it like for you to see it pulled off?

Michelle Thornbury 15:46
Oh, in the wake of 9/11, it was very, very emotional, because we weren't sure if we were going to be able to go forward immediately in September. And then all of a sudden to have everything work. And you know, the flag walking in with that. People have talked about where it was pure silence in the venue. And then the absolute joy of the performances, and the enjoyment of the athletes and President Bush sitting in the stand with Tara --. Oh, with Sasha Cohen calling her mom on the phone. And it was just it -- The world was at our feet. And we were -- it was this moment of feeling the true Olympic experience. This is we come together in peace. And we had to work really hard before the Games. Most people worked really hard during the Games. Everybody worked hard before but our real lead up was tremendous. And then as soon as the opening ceremonies were done, we kind of got to breathe a little bit and relax for a couple of weeks. Until closing.

Christian Napier 16:48
Well, closing ceremonies was a blast. I mean, I had so much fun, the closing ceremonies. And it was just a huge party. It was a ton of fun. What was the closing like for you?

Michelle Thornbury 17:01
It was a party, but it was a relaxed party because there was so much pressure on opening that by the time closing it was like yeah, it's an after party. Whoo, awesome. One of the things I remember most though, was that the audience booed when Juan Antonio Samaranch declared the Games closed. And and it was it was kind of cool, because they were the audience was saying We had so much fun that we're mad that you're closing this. And it would that was kind of as I call the peak moment in the closing for me.

Christian Napier 17:29
Well, and I kind of felt the same way. Like, yeah, it was a tremendous celebration. At the same time, as I've mentioned on a couple of other podcasts, it was hard, because you knew that it was coming to an end.

Michelle Thornbury 17:39
Yeah. And then, you know, the next morning, we had to start turning the venue around, because we were the opening venue for Paralympics. So and that was, you know, partly a whole new team. And partly, you know, event services folks were the same but the ceremonies team were completely different. The set was different. And the athletes were different, of course. So it was, it was intense and it in the coolest possible ways.

Christian Napier 18:04
And I have to give a shout out to the Paralympic ceremonies too. I really loved them and as a huge Stevie Wonder fan. I loved seeing Stevie Wonder come out there and perform.

Michelle Thornbury 18:12
Yeah, that actually is one of my one of my favorite stories from the Paralympics. You know, do you remember it poured down rain during the Paralympic opening ceremonies and it was very cold pouring down rain. And Stevie's tour manager was an old friend of mine. I toured with him on Shania Twain, and he called me and he's like, hey, we have to get Stevie out of here, the second, the second he's done performing. And I'm like, well, we're gonna be eggressing 40,000 people the way you want to pull Stevie's car out. So this can be a little bit of a challenge. He's like, well, look, he's wet, and he's cold. And he's performing and you have to figure out how to get him out of here. And so then I called Ronan, and I'm like, help and he's going, Nope, can't happen. And I'm like, Ronan. And he made it happen. You know, we made just enough of a break in the spectators were hey, folks, can you hang on for just one second, so that Stevie's car could shoot out, and then shoot underneath the venue so he can get out?

Christian Napier 19:15
Wow, that's an amazing story. Wow. One of the things that's really interesting about ceremonies and it's always a challenge, I think, for the staff who work very closely with the ceremonies is keeping secrets.

Michelle Thornbury 19:29
Yeah.

Christian Napier 19:30
So tell us about that, you know, because you know, you're there, you're, you're the you're part of the management and you you learn certain things and then people are bugging you all the time. So who's going to light the torch and how are they going to do it? Or who are the musical numbers and you know, the guests and all these kind of things? Who are the stars? So, did you feel any of that kind of pressure? How did you get around trying, you know, how did you keep stay friends with people while trying to keep them at a distance?

Michelle Thornbury 19:58
Well it was more fun being a surprise. Ultimately, I knew some and then there were some things I didn't know. I didn't know who was lighting the cauldron. And I'm glad I didn't, because then I was just as choked up as everybody else when the '80 Olympic Hockey Team walks out and lights the flame. So it was, it was really cool. There were some things I knew we were really lucky in the last few months of build out where we were able to actually be housed in the office tower on the top of the recycle Stadium, overlooking the field. So there were some things that even though you know, nobody had told me I'm watching it happen on the field. And so there were occasions like the Donny and Marie dinosaurs, we got to learn really early. And there were a couple of really cool examples. For the most part, though, it was, it was really important not to share, it was really important to make it a surprise for everyone. One of the other big surprises for me was the folks that carried out the Olympic flag. Because there was Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and Billie Jean King. And I was like, whoa, they're in our building. It's big enough that President Bush is here and, and the Prime Minister of Canada and you know, somebody from the royal family, and then that it was, it was truly a convergence.

Christian Napier 21:14
Well, some of our friends here on these podcasts have talked about this as well. But the, the ceremony, the opening ceremony had some additional significance, right, because of 9/11. And everything that happened there. And it was more than just a celebration of the Games, it was kind of the world's coming out party. It's like, you know what, we're back. And we're going to live on and we're going to be happy, and we're going to find joy, and, and the ceremony allowed the opportunity to have serious reflection on what happened, but also gave hope for the future.

Michelle Thornbury 21:47
And we didn't have to create something. And in an event from scratch, it was something that was already underway. So we already had the Olympic ideals to look to, and say, yes, this is why we do this. And it was more important all of a sudden, like September 12th, it was vitally important that we get back and make this happen to remind the world that we can come together in peace.

Christian Napier 22:10
September 11, that was a tremendously difficult moment, a very, very heavy moment, but I don't want to dwell on it too much on our podcast. I want to talk about some of the light moments, you know, what were some of the times where there was just really fun or or, you know, do you have any memories of things that were just hilarious? Anytime you think back on it, you just chuckle?

Michelle Thornbury 22:30
Oh, well, I've got a really good warm one. I mean, the Stevie Wonder one is my chuckle kind of but warm one. We held our venue Christmas Party and the Christmas before the Games in the field of Rice Eccles Stadium, so the field was already built out with the ice rink and everything. So we had a great big skating party, on the field of Rice Eccles Stadium, with all of our venue team and all of the cast and all their performers and everybody that was already in town, and s'mores and hot chocolate. And I remember Bev Carey, you know, she told you that she grew up skating Sarah Kawahara, who was Scott's choreographer for years and the ice choreographer for ceremonies, saw Bev Carey skating with me and asked her if she wanted to consider joining the skating cast, which was really pretty cool.

Christian Napier 23:29
Michelle, you've told us so many interesting stories, any other fun or interesting stories that you want to share with us?

Michelle Thornbury 23:33
Well, there was one pretty crazy one. President Bush wanted to go up to his seats, and they decided to use a different elevator bank than they had originally planned. And I was kind of working with the secret service team, his movements. And so I get in the elevator with them. And the sweet event services gal was completely overwhelmed. And she hits the fourth floor button without turning a key to override the elevator and so the elevator doors open on the main concourse. And we're all kind of standing there like oh crud, because we've got the President of the United States on an open elevator on the main concourse. And I stepped in front of her and I had a key to every door in the building. I throw my key into the thing and I'm like, let's go let's go get him safely up to his level.

Christian Napier 24:23
So what's the president's detail thinking? Like the door opens like uh, what? Does he not even know what's going on?

Michelle Thornbury 24:29
I don't think he knew what was going on because he was so far back in the elevator, but the Secret Service are kind of like grumbling and I'm like step[ing in really quick before anybody has an opportunity to get angry about this because there's nothing we can do if the doors are open. Close them down.

Christian Napier 24:42
Well, thankfully, you had all the keys.

Michelle Thornbury 24:44
I had all the keys.

Christian Napier 24:45
So you were the key master.

Michelle Thornbury 24:49
Yes. Well, I got another really big heartwarming one. Those are the ones that really get me. You know, we had that huge snowstorm the day before opening ceremonies. We had full dress rehearsal where we invited locals to come and see the dress rehearsal and give us a feeling for what it was going to be like to have people in the building. And then, high winds. And so they had to pull set pieces and not use them. And then this huge snowstorm. And I looked out the window of the venue. And Jeff Bennett, who was one of the producers of the show, so he was as high as you get in the ceremony production team, had led all of his team out onto the field of play, to start shoveling the field of play to make it ready for the performers. And it showed, you know, the way that Mitt and Fraser showed leadership in getting out and doing things hands on. Jeff did that for our team, too. And Ron always did that for our team, too. So it made us all say, hey, we got to get out there and help shovel snow off of seats and off of the field of play to make this ready for our spectators and our guests.

Christian Napier 25:52
It's so interesting you bring up that story, because just an hour ago, I'm talking with Lori, and asking her about some things that she learned that helped her throughout her career. And one of the things that she mentioned was that no job is too small, right? That you do whatever needs to be done, you just get down and you do it. And so that actually is going to take me to my next question for you. You mentioned that after the Games, you returned to Nashville, you've been working with Scott Hamilton for a long time. What were some of the things that you learned during your tenure in Salt Lake that helped you both personally and professionally?

Michelle Thornbury 26:25
Definitely that was one of them. For sure. There are no job is -- no job is too big. No job is too small. Immediately after the Games Ron and I went together to work on the Harley Davidson 100th anniversary tour. And so we were going around to speedways and racetracks and setting up a mobile museum. And we brought some of our Salt Lake friends along to help in various departments. And the thing that I learned was that nobody plans like an Olympic Games. I mean, we spent -- I was there. I got there in November of 2000. And we spent a year and a half preparing for those Games. And in the concert business and other businesses and touring, you just -- you just go do. And so I learned sort of a balance between super effective planning, and moving a little bit more quickly than the Olympic world allows you to move. But at the same time in Salt Lake, I learned that we were prepared for every possible eventuality, there was nothing that was was beyond the scope of something we had considered and thought about how we were going to handle and how to make it better. And that's something that I've brought into everything I've done since then. Maybe not to the level of intensity, but it makes me stop and think every single time. How do I make this the best it can possibly be? And how do I prevent or prepare for the possibility that something may work differently -- better or worse?

Christian Napier 28:00
Well, this has been just great fun for me, Michelle, and I appreciate you so much sharing all of your stories. We're coming near to the -- well, coming close to the end of our time, but we do have some assignments. The first assignment had to do with music. And so is there a particular song that you hear today? Or you know, you're walking through the mall or you turn the radio on in your car, you hear this song and your mind goes right back to Salt Lake 2002?

Michelle Thornbury 28:29
Yeah, I thought a lot about this. The song that really is stuck in me in my head the most is Fragile by Sting, and it first came out in the 80s. But Sting and Yoyo Ma performed it at the opening ceremonies, and it was one of those breathtaking moments, especially because it was put in the set because of 9/11. And reminding us how valid, how fragile we are and how strong we are at the same time. How resilient. So that's my song for the Olympic Games.

Christian Napier 28:58
It's a beautiful song, beautiful song. That's a very worthy addition to our Spotify playlist, where we have all the songs that have been nominated by our guests here on the podcast. My next question for you is about the food. So is there a particular restaurant that you liked to go to when you work there in Salt Lake?

Michelle Thornbury 29:15
Yes. And thank you Katie Clifford, for reminding me of the name of it. It was European Connection around behind the SLOC headquarters, the place that made the amazing crepes. I still crave them. And they had another location out -- right up by the U. So I got to go there even when we were, when we were working at the university.

Christian Napier 29:35
Yeah, the European connection, I don't think is there anymore. So I put it there on the list, though, on my website. And so all the restaurants that have been nominated are either on a map, if they still exist, or they are on a list if they have since closed. And my final question for you this afternoon, Michelle is you've given us a lot of heartwarming moments but is there one real, just spine tingling goosebump moment for you?

Michelle Thornbury 30:07
Yeah, heartwarming too. But spine tingling for me, I, I knew every inch of that venue every inch. And fortunately on the day of opening ceremonies, I was able to walk around pretty much every bit of it. Because I wanted to experience everything that was happening and see what it felt like to be in the audience. And at one point, I found myself at the top of the seating bowl right underneath the skyboxes standing by myself in a corner, just overlooking the entire field of play, and all of the spectators and the flags and the cauldron and just standing in this moment going, wow, the entire world is at my feet. In this moment, we came together and we pulled off something that brought the entire world together for one night, and I'm choked up just remembering it It was one of the most powerful moments in my life.

Christian Napier 31:07
Oh, that's a beautiful moment and a very worthy and solid moment to lead us out. Michelle, thank you so much for taking the time. It's been a real pleasure to speak with you. I appreciate you sharing all of your memories with us. If people want to learn more about the work that you're doing with Scott Hamilton and especially the nonprofit work, or they want to reconnect with you through social media or otherwise what's the best way for them to do that?

Michelle Thornbury 31:33
Oh, thank you. Yes. Um, well, I'm on all the social media platforms, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, a little bit on Twitter. But easiest is michelle@scotthamilton.com email address. It's probably the easiest to remember. And I'd love to hear from people because I love keeping in touch. This has been a really wonderful experience. I so appreciate it.

Christian Napier 31:55
Well, I appreciate you again, taking the time and listeners, please like, subscribe to our podcast. We'll see you next episode. Michelle, thank you so much.

Michelle Thornbury 32:03
Thank you so much Christian.